With the popularity, enthusiasm and collector interest for the Remington Nylon Rifles we thought it was important to give it a proper home. So we went to work and built no just a site but a community with the goal for make this the premiere place on the web that has everything you ever need to know about Remington Nylon Rifles. No matter if it's help, information or finding others that share your interest in these guns you’ll find it here!
~ Mac66 and LouieMacGoo
Letter Codes are usually located on the left side of barrel,
just above the stock line and just forward of the rear sight.
**The photo above shows the location of the letters**
(The first letter is the month, second letter is the year.)
Month of Manufacture
Jan Feb Mar Apr May June July Aug Sept Oct Nov Dec
B L A C K P O W D E R X
Year of Manufacture
1959 – F
1960 – G
1961 – H
1962 – J
1963 – K
1964 – L
1965 – M
1966 – N
1967 – P
1968 – R
1969 – S
1970 – T
1971 – U
1972 – W
1973 – X
1974 – Y
1975 – Z
1976 – I
1977 – O
1978 – Q
1979 – V
1980 – A
1981 – B
1982 – C
1983 – D
1984 – E
1985 – F
1986 – G
1987 – H
1988 – I
1989 – J
Please note that many rifles, particularly 22s, did not have serial numbers prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act. Remington added serial numbers in 1967 staring with 400,000. Since year codes are often duplicated, a code letter on a gun with a serial number would be later than 1967 while one without a serial number would be a year prior to 1967.
Please also note that these code letters refer to all Remington rifles including all the variations of the Nylon line. The complete list of code letters can be found in the file section of this group and also in the links section.
Also note that sometimes you will find 3 letters on the barrel.It is sometimes difficult to determine which of the letters apply. Best thing to do is use the serial number trick above (w/o serial # pre 67, w/serial # post 67). Then fit the letters as appropriate.
The Apache 77 was a green stock nylon rifle made for K-Mart and sold from 1987-1989. Although it’s unclear how many were actually made. Estimates range from 10,000, 50,000 to over 100,000.
Over the last few years we have been conducting a survey of these rifles that we can find so we can get an idea of the serial number range. With enough data,
we should be able to figure out approximately how many A77s were made.
This survey is ongoing and we appreciate contributions of serial numbers and
date codes. You can submit your Apache 77 information in the forum or by sending an email to us at info@nylonrifles.com.
A note on the numbers below.
xxx means whoever submitted the numbers did not want the full serial number revealed.
Unknown or Unk indicate that one or more of the date codes were not provided or not discernible. Some letters were taken from photos which made it difficult to determine.
In most cases it is apparent which year and month some rifles fall into based on their serial number range.
**This article has been republished from the original NylonRifles Yahoo Group**
“Ed’s Red” – - Revisited
By C.E., “Ed” Harris
Since I mixed my first “Ed’s Red” (ER) bore cleaner five years ago, hundreds of users have told me that they find it as effective as commercial products. This cleaner has an action similar to military rifle bore cleaner, such as Mil-C-372B. It is highly effective for removing plastic fouling from shotgun bores, caked carbon in semi-automatic rifles or pistols, or leading in revolvers. “ER” is not a “decoppering” solution for fast removal of heavy jacket fouling, but because is more effective in removal of caked carbon and primer residues than most other cleaners, so metal fouling is reduced when “ER” is used.
I researched the subject rather thoroughly, and determined that there was no technical reason why, an effective firearm bore cleaner couldn’t be mixed using common hardware store ingredients. The resulting cleaner is safe, effective, inexpensive, provides excellent corrosion protection and adequate residual lubrication. Routine oiling after cleaning is unnecessary except for storage exceeding 1 year, or in harsh environments, such as salt air exposure.
The formula is adapted from Hatcher’s “Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18, ” but substitutes equivalent modern materials. Hatcher’s recipe called for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil, and (optionally) 200 grams of anhydrous lanolin per liter into the cleaner.
Some discussion of the ingredients in ER is helpful to understand the properties of the cleaner and how it works. Pratts Astral Oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. Today you would ask for “K1″ kerosene of the type sold for use in indoor space heaters.
An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron III automatic transmission fluid. Prior to 1950 most ATF’s were sperm oil based. During WWII sperm oil was mostly unavailable, so highly refined, dewaxed hydrofinished petroleum oils were developed, which had excellent thermal stability. When antioxidants were added to prevent gumming these worked well in precision instruments.
With the high demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATFs in the needed quantities needed, so the wartime expedients were mass produced. ATFs have been continually improved over the years. The additives contained in Dexron include detergents or other surfactants, which are highly suitable for inclusion in an all-purpose cleaner, lubricant and preservative.
Hatcher’s Frankford Arsenal No. 18 used gum spirits of turpentine, but turpentine is both expensive and also highly flammable, so I chose not to use it. Much safer and more inexpensive are “aliphatic mineral spirits, ” which are an open-chain organic solvent, rather than the closed-chain, benzene ring structure, common to “aromatics, ” such as naphtha or “lighter fluid.” Sometimes called “safety solvent, ” aliphatic mineral spirits are used for thinning oil based paint, as automotive parts cleaner and is commonly sold under the names “odorless mineral spirits, ” “Stoddard Solvent” or “Varsol”.
Acetone is included to provide an aggressive, fast-acting solvent for caked smokeless powder residues. Because acetone readily evaporates and the fumes are harmful in high concentrations, it is recommended that it be left out if the cleaner will be used indoors, in soak tanks or in enclosed spaces lacking forced air ventilation. Containers should be kept tightly closed when not in use. ER is still effective without acetone, but not as “fast-acting.”
“Ed’s Red” does not chemically dissolve copper fouling in rifle bores, but it does a better job of removing carbon and primer residue than most other cleaners. Many users have told me, that frequent and exclusive use of “ER” reduces copper deposits, because it removes the old impacted powder fouling left behind by other cleaners. This reduces the abrasion and adhesion of jacket metal to the bore, leaving a cleaner surface condition, which reduces subsequent fouling. Experience indicates that “ER” will actually remove metal fouling in bores if it is left to “soak, ” for a few days so the surfactants will do the job, when followed by a repeat cleaning. You simply have to be patient.
Addition of lanolin to ER is optional, because the cleaner works perfectly well and gives adequate corrosion protection and lubrication without it. Inclusion of lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the hands, increases its lubricity and film strength and improves corrosion protection if firearms, tools or equipment will be routinely exposed to salt air, water spray, or corrosive urban atmospheres.
I recommend the lanolin included if you intend to use the cleaner as a protectant for long term storage or for a “flush” after water cleaning of black powder firearms or those fired with military chlorate primers. This is because lanolin has a great affinity for water and readily emulsifies so that the bore can be wiped of residual moisture, leaving a protective film. If you inspect your guns and wipe them down twice yearly, you can leave out the lanolin and save about $10 per gallon.
At current retail prices you can buy all the ingredients to mix ER, without the lanolin for about $12 per gallon. I urge you to mix some yourself. I am confident it will work as well for you as it does for me, and hundreds of users who got the “recipe” on the Fidonet Firearms Echo.
CONTENTS: Ed’s Red Bore Cleaner:
1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene – deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute “Stoddard Solvent”, CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)
MIXING INSTRUCTIONS:
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will slowly evaporate. Acetone in ER will attack HDPE over time, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess!
Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved. I recommend diverting up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix to use as “ER-compatible” gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix. Label and safety warnings follow:
FIREARM BORE CLEANER
CAUTION:
FLAMMABLE MIXTURE
HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
Contents: petroleum distillates, surfactants,
organometallic antioxidants, and acetone
Flammable mixture, keep away from heat, sparks or flame.
FIRST AID: If swallowed, DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.
Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE:
Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.
Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5″ strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.
For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled service rifles, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use.
Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed’s Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under average atmospheric conditions.
If lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years, even in a humid environment. For longer storage, use Lee Liquid Alox or Cosmolene. “ER” will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene.
Wipe spilled Ed’s Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed’s Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes.
Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush. Your first shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed’s Red, if the bore is cleaned as described.
I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed’s Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a flush with Ed’s Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the corrosive residue out.
This “Recipe” has been placed in the public domain, and may be freely distributed provided that it is done so in it’s entirely with all current revisions, instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper attribution is given to the author.
How many times have you asked or read on different forums the above question? The answer of course is quite simple. “It” is worth whatever you, or someone else is willing to pay for it. Of course that answer is rather simplistic as is the question. The real question is: What determines the value? Or, what criteria is the value of my rifle based on? Those questions are not so easily answered.
As you will see when you read this, it does finally come down to what you are willing to pay but there are a number of other factors which may determine the value of your Nylon rifles. Before you go out shopping or go any further, hold up your wallet with your right hand and repeat after me:
“There were over a million Nylon 66s and tens of thousands of variations made. Most are still in circulation. I will not spend a house payment on a cheap plastic rifle. I will find one just like it at a reasonable price.”
Blue Book of Gun Values
A good place to start is the various value guide that are put out. Most people, including retailers, pawn shop owners etc, use the value guides to determine what they will pay for and sell rifles for. This includes Nylon Rifles. The Blue Book of firearms values is probably the most popular and mostly widely used of the guide. Of course the value guides don’t always reflect the current market or variations in the market based on consumer interest. I once bought a Seneca Green 66 from a pawnshop. The shopkeeper used a blue book value, which I knew was far below what many of us would have paid for a Seneca rifle. Considering the shop keeper had this gun in his inventory for 20 years, he was happy to finally get some money out of it and I was happy to get it for significantly below it’s collector value. And you know what? It was worth exactly what I paid for it.
The Blue Book can also help you negotiate a fair price. I recall seeing a Nylon rifle in hardware store that also sold guns. The owner had it way overpriced and I asked him about it. He said a friend mentioned to him that nylon rifles were now considered collectible and that he should price his accordingly. I showed him the blue book value and he lowered his price accordingly. While I didn’t buy his rifle I did tell another guy who was looking. He subsequently bought it at a fair price and both he and the shop owner were happy.
Geographic Location/ Local Market
Geographic location is one of the key factors in determining price. Location, whether east or west coast, north or south, rural, suburban or urban play a significant role on both the number of rifles available, and the numbers of people who are looking or collecting them. Of course your location also determines the market to a great degree.
For example, if you are looking for an Apache 77, the rifle which Remington made exclusively for K Mart in 1987-89, then it stands to reason the area in which you look should have had a K Mart in it during this period. Not having a K Mart, doesn’t mean you won’t find an Apache 77, it just means that there may not be as many available and consequently the prices may be higher.
Another factor has to do with how mobile you are and how much effort you are willing to put into collecting. If you buy all your rifles from internet auctions, you are likely to pay more for them. This is because the person selling the rifle has done all the work and is likely to add their time and expense to the cost of the rifle. Some collectors may travel because of their jobs, while others make the time and effort to drive to distance cities and locations where collecting may be better than their home turf.
I once undertook an all day search for rifles and visited 8 pawn shops within a 60 mile radius of home. I found 5 nylon rifles and bought 3. The price for 2 of them were cheap. When one considers that I was out for 6 hours and drove almost 150 miles during the search, the cost of the rifles were significantly larger than the price alone.
The significance of location also has to do with sources. If the area you live has numerous sources of used guns, then the likely hood of finding one is greatly increased and the cost is decreased. These sources may include gun shops, pawn shops, gun shows etc. It comes down to supply and demand.
A note about gun auction sites. Auction sites are a good place to see what is available but generally the prices are high compared to real value. Occasionally a good rifle shows up at a decent price, but I would not use the auction prices as a guide to the value of any nylon rifle.
Type of rifle:
Certainly the type or model of nylon rifle determines the collect ability which determines the price. Factors include scarcity in terms of numbers of a certain model made. Serial numbers can influence the cost though many Nylon rifles were made without serial numbers. In fact all Nylon rifles made prior to late 1967 were made without serial numbers. Specific features or significant changes in models can also determine value. At some point the windage screw on the rear sight was changed from a large head to a small head. A few other minor changes were made through the years.
Numbers made:
In terms of the nylon rifles, the numbers of rifles made certainly influences the value, though this factor is sometimes misleading. For example, there were well over 1 million Nylon 66s made. Of these 42,500 were the Seneca Green 66, a much larger number were Apache Black and Black Diamond models. Of the other nylon rifles, just over 10,000 Nylon 10s were made in 2 variations, 22,400 Nylon 11s were made, and around 27,500 Nylon 12s. Only 15,000 Nylon 77s were made but they seldom demand high prices. 128,300 Nylon Mohawk 10C were made. About 27,000 lever action Nylon 76s were made and they do command high dollars. A couple hundred thousand of the K-Mart Apache 77 were made.
Age:
We all know that under many circumstances, how old the rifle is can determine the value. In regards to the Nylon rifles this may not hold true. While many models, the Seneca Green, Nylon 76, and the bolt actions were made in the early 1960s, the value is mostly based on its scarcity and not the year it was made. Nylon 66s don’t seem to follow the older the more valuable formula either. I have half a dozen basic 66s some made in 1959 and some made throughout the rest of the years. The value of the early ones is about the same as the later ones.
I am sure that some people would pay more for a first year production rifle, but for the most part it doesn’t seem to matter.
Condition:
In most cases the condition of a rifle determines the value. This is somewhat true with Nylon rifles but only when it comes to about 90% or better rifles. Like new rifles are of value to those who are looking for such. Average condition rifles vary in price mostly due to the type of the rifle and not the condition. Condition should be determined based on the NRA condition scale. For the most part, value guides are based on the NRA scale.
Type of Buyer
A buyer who is simply looking to buy a nylon rifle because he had one as a kid is significantly different that a buyer who is seeking to collect nylon rifles. Some collectors only seek to find working rifles of each model of nylon that was made and don’t care much about condition. Some collectors seek to find only like new in the box versions or models that are at least 98% or better. Some collectors start out as casual collectors and then get hooked and start collecting better and better condition rifles as well as all the other stuff that goes with the rifles.
A motivated buyer, someone who is impatient, tired of looking, or who doesn’t want to spend time looking is likely to pay more for a rifle. Someone who is in no hurry and/or feels the hunt is part of the fun is likely to pay less for a rifle. There are some of us who are both types, depending on the circumstances. I, for example set a price limit on what I will pay for certain types of rifles. I am generally in no big hurry, but may pay more for one rifle if I’ve gotten a deal on another rifle and the cost evens out somewhat. I may pay more for a rifle if I know I can trade it for something that I need or want of greater value. The value being the difference of what I paid over what I would have paid. In fact I have a set of rules for adding to my collection. I will not pay over $100 for a basic Nylon 66. I won’t pay over $200 for a variation, and I won’t pay over $300 for any of the more rare models. Have I broken any of my rules? On individual guns, hell yes. But overall I’ve done very well and am probably ahead of the game.
Unfortunately, an impatient buyer or someone who has more money than time, has a tendency to drive of the cost of our nylon rifles. A person simply looking to buy a basic Nylon 66 should be able to find one in decent condition for around $100. They can pay a lot more, or they can pay less. The point being is that there are rifles still out there at reasonable prices. If you have patience you will be able to find them.
A note about group/collector forums.
A forum or website such as this is a good way to learn more about the rifles we love. Unfortunately, it also generates interest in the nylon rifles which in turn increases the demand. Increased demand has a tendency to also increase prices. The balance of course is that if someone becomes interested in the rifles and becomes knowledgeable then they are an informed consumer. They soon learn that these nylon rifles are not particularly scarce, nor of such great quality as to command exorbitant prices.
The Hole
The hole is the one rifle in your collection that you don’t have. In other words, it is the hole in your collection. The hole can greatly affect what you are willing to pay for a rifle. It is the reason for breaking your own rules. How many of us could resist if the only rifle you needed was sitting in front of you and was only $50 or $100 more than what you were originally willing to pay.
“Stupid people”
The following was written by Tuco who runs the Mosin Nagant collectors forum. I present it because it makes a pretty good point and I couldn’t say it any better.
“Yes stupid people can effect price. There are those out there that will just throw money down the toilet as they have no idea what they are doing. This type of person is one that can really hurt the overall market as sellers see these jokers from a mile away. The sellers cash in on these mental midgets and that in turn hurts the average collector.
These stupid people are not the same as the new collector. New collectors make mistakes in price but they will learn over time. The stupid people are those that should know better but still act like fools. These people seem to just throw money at firearms, even if they pay twice the true value. This is very common on the many auctions on the Net and that I why I avoid these places. One can find a bargain at times but again the auction prices are VERY HIGH in most cases. Do not use an auction price as a guide, as you will always be disappointed in the price you are offered if one ever makes a sale.
I do not understand these stupid people as they seem to just hate their money. The sad fact is that many dealers and newer collectors use these stupid people as a price guide. Please do not walk into that trap, as you will regret it down the line.”
A word from me about online gun auctions:
I occasionally see nylon rifles for sale on the auction sites. For the most part the prices are outrageously high and the rifle is misrepresented as something it is not. I’ve corresponded with a number of the people selling these rip-offs and some will even admit that most people don’t know the difference between the two. (For example a K-Mart green rifle listed as having a seneca green stock.) Of course it pisses me off at their arrogance, but then again someone must buy these rifles or they wouldn’t keep listing them. The people who will buy a 10 or MB66 for $250 should read the “Stupid People” paragraphs above.
Now, you might ask if I’ve ever bought a nylon rifle from an auction site. I have. I bought a Nylon 77 for $120 on an auction site. Since it was in 95% condition and only 15,000 were made, I thought the price reasonable.
So, what is a nylon rifle worth? Well, it depends on what model it is, what condition it is in, how easy it is to find, whether you need it badly or not and what you, as someone who has read all the information on the nylon rifles group site, are willing to pay for it.
Now repeat after me…
“There were over a million Nylon 66s and tens of thousands of variations made. Most are still in circulation. I will not spend a house payment on …
